Curse

wilderness · Aug 12, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy brute

It makes no sense, you customize to get added damage, at the cost of not being able to re-sell the item at the market price. If what you are asking is to be implemented, they may as well just add +20% damage to all weapons in the first place and get rid of the customization feature.

See? this is why we <3 him!

Q F E

Account wide customize would be a blessing.

Kool Pajamas · Aug 12, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Get rid of customization of weapons all together! It's pointless except to make your weapon of equal strength of pvp weapons. Take it off of pvp weapons also. Customization in GW is just pointless. All it does is create threads like this.

genofreek · Aug 12, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

The way I look at it? For the right price, EVERYTHING in my inventory is for sale. If the scythe my derv has been carrying pretty much since I made her happens to shoot up in value, you'd better believe it's going on the market.

I do have a few customized pieces other than the /bonus equipment, but those are mostly the greens I already have duplicates of.

Government Flu · Aug 12, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Only an idiot uses an uncustomised weapon anyway... or you might aswell use this unmodded collectors weapon and customise that.

Just because I don't customize my weapons doesn't make me an idiot. Customized weapons lower the market value of my weapons to nothing and I have very varied tastes. I might end up using a fellblade for three months then find a good deal on a gothic sword and decide it's time for a change.

Well, to lower my loss margin, I sell my fellblade. I don't tend to think narrowly in terms of this game. I take into account PvP, PvE, the NPC market, and the player market.

+20% won't help you defeat Shiro and it won't make a difficult mission suddenly beatable. So no, I'm not an idiot for using non-customized weapons, I'm merely thinking of the future.

Anyway, like previous posters said, just don't customize the weapon if you want to sell it.

MrFuzzles · Aug 13, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmare_Pwner

So Uncustimization should be implemented so if your stuck with a shlt load of weps that you cant sell becuase they are custimized and they keep building up and up and no point in destroyin them becuase they are of Value.

This is the entire point of customization. It's an item sink which is needed in mmo's.

Without item or monetary sinks, the economy would inflate faster than an 18 year old's breasts in hollywood. 95% of every single green and perfect gold that ever dropped would keep circulating.

It's the same reason why we can't trade armor and why the npc doesn't give you your full value back when you sell it. It's intended for a good reason.

Kool Pajamas · Aug 13, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

This is the entire point of customization. It's an item sink which is needed in mmo's.

Without item or monetary sinks, the economy would inflate faster than an 18 year old's breasts in hollywood. 95% of every single green and perfect gold that ever dropped would keep circulating.

It's the same reason why we can't trade armor and why the npc doesn't give you your full value back when you sell it. It's intended for a good reason.

No it's not needed in GW. GW is different than most MMOs. It isn't based on how good your weapons/armor are.

It's not the same reason why npc's don't give full value back. That's a money sink. Customizing is an item sink. Difference. Item sink makes stuff worth more to other players. The value changes to the other players. The money comes from the other players. A money sink is based on the money going to the game instead of other players. In other words money leaving the players. With an item sink, the money is still floating around between players. And you know what? All those perfect items, all those greens and mods are floating around. They aren't hard to get because most people don't customize their stuff. The only money sink in customizing is the 10g you pay to have it customized, which is virtually nothing in GW.

The Herbalizer · Aug 13, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

See? this is why we <3 him!

Q F E

Account wide customize would be a blessing.

yup agreed...................................

Sleeper Service · Aug 13, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

The title says it all.

You fail to understand the point in customising. Only an idiot uses an uncustomised weapon anyway... or you might aswell use this unmodded collectors weapon and customise that.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Couldn't have said it better? wow. A little more effort and youll be king of teh internetz.

What would be nice is for weapons once customised to a char become red and the name changed to the chars. yes like diablo2. Then i would see the point of actually doing something so drastic.

ps: i use uncustomized weapons, clearly im just another one of those idiots.

against · Aug 13, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy brute

1. This has been suggested and argued over many times before, and just turns into a flame war towards the thread starter.

2. It makes no sense, you customize to get added damage, at the cost of not being able to re-sell the item at the market price. If what you are asking is to be implemented, they may as well just add +20% damage to all weapons in the first place and get rid of the customization feature.

I think you can guess from this post, but here it is anyway /notsigned

It would not be the same as adding 20% damage to all weapons, because of the fee to uncustomize. The uncustomization would be another gold sink. A.net loves gold sinks.

I've regretted customizations in the past. It was a bad decision and I recognize that. I still didn't learn from my mistake, but, once again, am aware.

I wouldn't care if they did or didn't implement this. I would use it if they did, but yeah. I'm not crying over my millions in customized rare weapons.

Evilsod · Aug 13, 2007, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Lol, so far the only retorts my post got was 'lolz noob, i use an uncustomised weapon because it'll lose market value'.

Having that weapon in your inventory for 1 month and not selling it, it loses market value, if you don't actually intend to keep it, decide there and then and either customise it, or sell it before the price goes down.

Customising an item... MAKES IT WORTHLESS TO EVERYONE ELSE BUT BETTER FOR YOURSELF!

Seriously are there people in this thread that go around with 15^50 Chaos Axes but refuse to customise them? Personally i'd rather that additional 20% damage... if you were using the skin because you liked it, you'd customise it, if your using it because you think it makes your e-peen bigger then its probably sundering and uncustomised making you vastly inferior as a damage dealer.
I bet some of you wouldn't even customise greens that go for less than 10k. The first green i bought i customised there and then, a Drago's Flatbow for i think 65k. I wasn't gonna resell the damn thing... i bought it to use. I still use it occasionally now.

So yes... i'm sticking with my first post. Only idiots use uncustomised weapons, your rare skinned weapon means nothing to me if its hugely inferior damage wise to a collectors weapon, or even a white weapon i found on the floor. The only things it doesn't apply to are caster items... why? Because caster items can end up all over the place, especially ones with 20% enchantments mods, wanding does no damage anyway.

Curse You · Aug 13, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I bet some of you wouldn't even customise greens that go for less than 10k. The first green i bought i customised there and then, a Drago's Flatbow for i think 65k. I wasn't gonna resell the damn thing... i bought it to use. I still use it occasionally now.

So yes... i'm sticking with my first post. Only idiots use uncustomised weapons, your rare skinned weapon means nothing to me if its hugely inferior damage wise to a collectors weapon, or even a white weapon i found on the floor. The only things it doesn't apply to are caster items... why? Because caster items can end up all over the place, especially ones with 20% enchantments mods, wanding does no damage anyway.

I customized my warrior's Victo's Battle Axe about 10 months ago. I knew I was never going to sell it, I like the skin and stats too much.

Most of my Ranger, Assassin and Dervish weapons aren't customized because I want to be able to hand them off to another character for the occasional "experimental" build. I actually have a Kanaxai's Axe that I hand around my characters, which takes the place of my warrior's Victo's Battle Axe.

wheel-of-doom · Aug 13, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

Im not sure about this, but i would like account wide customisation that would be nice

.

That would be really nice, as item customization only really effects me transferring items between my characters, solely for heroes.

Maybe they could add a "Hero's Customization" that would add a customization for all the heroes on your account, but not usable by normal characters.

Or if you actually wanted to uncustomize things, make customization much more expensive. Like 1k for white items, 3k for blue items, 5k for purple, 10k for gold and green, and charge double that to uncustomize a weapon. That would allow uncustomization for a substantial cost.

Otherwise, account wide customization gets a big thumbs up from me.

freekedoutfish · Aug 13, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy brute

The part you missed, is that it's customized.

Let me move it to a different level for you, let's say I customize my desk at school for example by carving intricate patterns into it. I can't just remove them carvings, the top of the desk would need a new layer or a layer removed. You might say that it is just like it was before, but it isn't, it will become either a little bigger or a little smaller, therefore still being customized as it is not how it was. Taking that into account, customizing that desk becomes a permanent effect. You can remove the initial customization but you add a new customization in doing so and never being able to get back to it's original state.

I agree with Diddy on this one, that is a nice idea that I haven't come across before and I would agree to that one.

Blergh :P

So its makes sense that you can add a modication to a weapon that would make perminant changes to it physically, and then be able to remove that mod later using a salvage kit and still have the weapon servive and be usably.

But if you customise a weapon, and add 20% more damage then its impossible to change it back?

How is modifying and customising a weapon any different? They are exactly the same process, so it makes no sense to say we cant undo one while the other we can.

I love how people try to apply real world logic to a fantasy online game, where we have magic, huge impossible creatures and unworldly objects. Because in a world where we have the ability to create undead creatures, it would be impossible to do a very simple task like uncustomising a weapon?

Somehow I dont think that is pushing the realm of realism, when we have 9 foot tall trolls and undead running around, to expect a weapon trader to be able to undo his customise job on your weapon!

If you want to make real world examples like "carving a word into a desk" and then not being able to remove that later, then you would have to argue that mods should be perminant too because they make physical changes to the weapons.

I mean how exactly do you remove an insignia from a weapon, because you have to assume it has been magicaly imbedded into it physically.

Surely continually adding and removing spear heads, bow grisps and bow strings would eventually cause those weapon to damage and break?

But we're able to do that as many times as we like.

You cant apply real world logic to one aspect of the game, and not apply it to the rest! If we can add and remove mods at our leasure then we should be able to add and remove the 20% damage as we like.

The two are exactly the same principle.

Yawgmoth · Aug 13, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Just add an option to customize item for the account - they still remain removed from the economy. I don't care about the cost, can be high, I just want this option. Especially because of this: The crappy pvp tournament rewards system, the 'red items' which basically require having perma-pvp chars (nonsense) would become worth spending the reward points on.

freekedoutfish · Aug 13, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I like this idea. It gives me ideas!

Create PvP character, make perfect weapon, with perfect mods, etc.
Uncustomize weapon and put it in storage.
Load PvE character that is level 2 in Kamadan, retrieve weapon from storage.
Customize weapon.

Skin might not be anything fancy, but the weapon would be max damage, require 9, with max mods.... and free of charge!

/sarcasm

Your trying to suggest that being able to uncustomise a weapon, will cause people to exploit the game by giving their lower level characters max weapons from the start. But we can already do that!!!

1) /bonus
2) Stick an uncustomised green or gold max weapon you find in pve into storage and the minute they open storage, its theirs.

How would being able to uncustomise weapons make any difference to that?

As for how pvp works when creating weapons, I have no idea because I dont pvp. But im not talking about pvp, im talking about pve weapons.

freekedoutfish · Aug 13, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

agreed on you point , but i do think that the OP would be willing to pay to have un-customised. so with that anology, just pay to re-layer your desk

Em... yes I would!!!!!!!!

I quite clearly stated in one of the replies in the thread that I dont mind whether the cost to uncustomise is low or high. I would accept it being a gold-sink and costing to have it done.

I'm perfectly willing to pay gold for any service inside the game, because I believe strongly that we need more gold sinks. I have worked and earned everything I have ingame and never asked for anything to be free.

Read things before you go making rediculious speculation about my opinions and my behaviour.

Curse You · Aug 13, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So its makes sense that you can add a modication to a weapon that would make perminant changes to it physically, and then be able to remove that mod later using a salvage kit and still have the weapon servive and be usably.

But if you customise a weapon, and add 20% more damage then its impossible to change it back?

How is modifying and customising a weapon any different? They are exactly the same process, so it makes no sense to say we cant undo one while the other we can.

I love how people try to apply real world logic to a fantasy online game, where we have magic, huge impossible creatures and unworldly objects. Because in a world where we have the ability to create undead creatures, it would be impossible to do a very simple task like uncustomising a weapon?

Somehow I dont think that is pushing the realm of realism, when we have 9 foot tall trolls and undead running around, to expect a weapon trader to be able to undo his customise job on your weapon!

If you want to make real world examples like "carving a word into a desk" and then not being able to remove that later, then you would have to argue that mods should be perminant too because they make physical changes to the weapons.

I mean how exactly do you remove an insignia from a weapon, because you have to assume it has been magicaly imbedded into it physically.

Surely continually adding and removing spear heads, bow grisps and bow strings would eventually cause those weapon to damage and break?

But we're able to do that as many times as we like.

You cant apply real world logic to one aspect of the game, and not apply it to the rest! If we can add and remove mods at our leasure then we should be able to add and remove the 20% damage as we like.

The two are exactly the same principle.

If you knew anything about swords, you would know what a Pommel and Hilt are. They are both simply what you use to hold the sword. It is usually very easy to change them because they are separate pieces from the rest of the sword.

However, if I were to cut out a part of my sword's blade, that's a form of customization. Now, I can't exactly just put that metal back on.

"Real world logic" does apply. All upgrade components are things that can be easily changed, without actually altering the base weapon. However, removing chunks from something (customizing it), obviously alters the base weapon.

freekedoutfish · Aug 13, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Lol, so far the only retorts my post got was 'lolz noob, i use an uncustomised weapon because it'll lose market value'.

Having that weapon in your inventory for 1 month and not selling it, it loses market value, if you don't actually intend to keep it, decide there and then and either customise it, or sell it before the price goes down.

Customising an item... MAKES IT WORTHLESS TO EVERYONE ELSE BUT BETTER FOR YOURSELF!

Seriously are there people in this thread that go around with 15^50 Chaos Axes but refuse to customise them? Personally i'd rather that additional 20% damage... if you were using the skin because you liked it, you'd customise it, if your using it because you think it makes your e-peen bigger then its probably sundering and uncustomised making you vastly inferior as a damage dealer.
I bet some of you wouldn't even customise greens that go for less than 10k. The first green i bought i customised there and then, a Drago's Flatbow for i think 65k. I wasn't gonna resell the damn thing... i bought it to use. I still use it occasionally now.

So yes... i'm sticking with my first post. Only idiots use uncustomised weapons, your rare skinned weapon means nothing to me if its hugely inferior damage wise to a collectors weapon, or even a white weapon i found on the floor. The only things it doesn't apply to are caster items... why? Because caster items can end up all over the place, especially ones with 20% enchantments mods, wanding does no damage anyway.

So your saying...

1) If you know you might sell the item later, dont customise it. But presumably continue to use it or give it to your heroes.

2) If you dont customise it, your an idiot.

...come on!!

So if we know we might sell that weapon at a later date, we cant customise it AND we cant ever use it or we're idiots?

How does that make sense?

Its either one or the other, and not both.

We dont always know whether we will want to sell an item later on. Concider how many different green weapons are added when a new campaign is released and a better weapon apears.

We cant predict how the game will change and how builds will change.

By your logic we should never use an uncustomised weapon, so regardless of whether we might have a really good green in storage, if its uncustomised (because you might sell it later) then we cant use it.

Your talking like we all know for absolute certain that the weapon we use, will be the one we use forever. I personally have changed my primary weapon about 4 times in 2 years. But when I first used the weapon I didnt realise that later I would find a better one.

I'm impressed that you seem to have some ability to forsee the future and know whether you will always be using a weapon, but we dont all have that ability.

Weapons are also one of the primary sources of trade ingame, and if you have 10-20 weapons in storage which are all customised (because at the time you didnt realise), then you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Or should we not have customised any of those weapons in hindsight knowing we might later sell them? and then end up with 20 weapons that arent customised and we'd be idiots to use!

You cant tell us to both not customise weapons knowing we might sell them later, and also tell us we're idiots not to use customised weapons.

freekedoutfish · Aug 13, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

If you knew anything about swords, you would know what a Pommel and Hilt are. They are both simply what you use to hold the sword. It is usually very easy to change them because they are separate pieces from the rest of the sword.

However, if I were to cut out a part of my sword's blade, that's a form of customization. Now, I can't exactly just put that metal back on.

"Real world logic" does apply. All upgrade components are things that can be easily changed, without actually altering the base weapon. However, removing chunks from something (customizing it), obviously alters the base weapon.

FGS its a computer game!!

Who cares whether customise requires the metal to be changed in the sword, or whether a mod is simply changing the handle of the sword.

Do you see any of that happen? do you witness the weapon trader removing the metal from the weapon, and changing it physically? do you see him get his blacksmith tools out and heat the oven up?

No you dont!!!

Your speculating that customising the weapon requires a physical change to it. I personally assumed that adding 20% damage was done through magic and the weapon trader charmed the weapon with extra damage.

What about when you add a HRT mod or any mod to a staff?

A staff is sometimes an entire object made of one material, so explain to me how they add that modification without physically take the staff apart!

Your trying to argue that you know exactly how customisation works and how they add that 20% extra damage and you (like all of us) havent got a clue.

Its never explained to us how they customise weapons and your assuming its done a certain way. How do you know the 20% isnt added using magics?

Magics can be removed without any hassle!! But (as I said) you cant apply real world logic to a fantasy game. Whos to say that you cant use magic to remove a phyiscal change to a weapon and return it to its original state?

Are you an expert on how magics can effect a weapon that has been customised?

We could simply have a mage NPC that casts a spell on the weapon and removes that customisation without having to take the weapon apart.

Curse You · Aug 13, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Well, you posted 4 times in under 30 minutes, with 1 person in between. You really need to try putting everything into one post.

On topic. I posted in a thread suggesting the same thing a few months ago. I believe we concluded that there was no reason for Arena Net to spend their resources to make this happen.

In order for it to work you would need to completely reprogram how PvP weapons differentiate from PvE weapons (as there is currently no difference besides names). Otherwise you could simply make all the weapons you want using a PvP character, then un-customize them.

There is no reason (balance-wise) for this either. Customization has always been about making the choice between extra damage and being able to re-sell. If you want to have +20% damage, make a PvP character (since the extra damage is hardly needed for PvE).

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Your talking like we all know for absolute certain that the weapon we use, will be the one we use forever. I personally have changed my primary weapon about 4 times in 2 years. But when I first used the weapon I didnt realise that later I would find a better one.

That's the risk you take when you customize a weapon.